Conrad Anker

Several years ago I had the remarkable opportunity to interview Conrad Anker. Admittedly, my questions were pretty dorky. But Conrad's responses offered a warm and open insight into what's important to him. His thoughts remain as timely as they were then.

When Erin Eddy of the Ouray Ice Festival contacted me to say he’d arranged an interview time for me with Conrad Anker, my first reaction was one of elation.

Then the panic set in. The thought of interviewing one of alpinism’s Greats, finder of George Mallory’s 75-year lost body on Everest, and best friend of Alex Lowe’s was intimidating to say the least. It wasn’t that I suffered from hero worship, but this was feeling a little like a planned conversation with Mallory himself.

For days I practiced in front of the mirror how I’d introduce myself and what size grin I’d wear.

“Hi, Conrad, my name is Martha Perantoni, and I’m a freelance journalist.”
(calm grin)

“Mr. Anker! What a pleasure! Thank you for taking some time from your hectic schedule! I’m a writer for a website which online presence we’re working to expand and I’m interested in telling your story.”
(toothy grin)

“Hi, Conrad, my name is Martha but my friends call me Skibby. Just to give you a little of my background, I’m a published author…blah-blah-blah.”
(professional grin)

I finally settled on, “Hi, Conrad, pleasure meeting you, and thanks. I’m really nobody but I’m also really interested in talking to you.”
(humble grin)

Hey, nothing like truth in the face of pressure.

I made arrangements to meet Conrad after his Thursday night slide show at the theater in Ouray during the 2005 Ouray Ice Festival. He and Will Gadd were both presenting, and it was like watching two diametrically opposed people each describe how much they love doing the same thing. Will is a showman, Conrad a philanthropist, yet each holds similar philosophies of adventure and a strong common denominator called the wild world. Like J.S. Bach and P.D.Q. Bach playing at the same concert, these two were twin sons of different thematic mothers.

Conrad spoke freely and intensely about his friendship with Alex Lowe, about some of the places he’d been, and finally about the Khumbu Climbing School he’s founded and continues to administer – a mountaineering guide school for Nepalese sherpas supported in part by the Alex Lowe Charitable Foundation. The goal is to prepare the sherpas and sherpani for their eventual assimilation into the Everest expedition culture by strengthening their winter survival skills, since the majority of deaths on Everest have been the sherpas themselves. Considering sherpas outnumber clients by around 7 to 1, it’s no surprise. In 2004 there were 32 students at the Phortse school, of that 6 were women. The 2005 session graduated 55, a dozen of which were women.

We met after the theatre emptied, shook hands like we knew the meaning behind a solid grip, and gradually made our way to the hotel lobby for a quiet place to talk. Conrad stopped repeatedly along the way to greet friends, admirers, and in the foyer of the lobby to introduce me to Jeff Lowe. Now I felt like I’d met both Mallory AND Irvine.

As with any journalist, I did what I thought was ample research and prepared intelligent and relevant questions to ask. Carrying my files, mini-tape recorder and glowing anticipation, I felt like a co-ed on her way to her first freshman anthropology lecture.

We sat in two overstuffed chairs in the hotel lounge; I set my mini-recorder on the table between us and proceeded to deliver my practiced and chosen introduction. I’m not sure what came out, but from the look on Conrad’s face I must have been speaking in tongues. Fortunately, Conrad is a gracious man and whatever I said he nodded in acknowledgement. Tall, a lanky build that looks like it’s built for power and speed, chronic hat hair and the chiseled, rugged face and clear gaze of a high altitude mountaineer, the intensity of his responses were equalized with an intensely soft-spoken manner.

What is happening with mountaineering in general? There are people like you and Alex, folks have dedicated their lives to mountaineering and climbing and to creating a more meaningful, more spiritual connection with the mountains. But it seems when you hear the kinds of records people want to set on Everest, for instance the first to jump rope at the top of the mountain, it seems more frivolous. Do you think that’s indicative of the direction mountaineering is going? Or is it a fluke?

There are three ways I do climbing. 1. don’t harm other people, 2. don’t harm any of the animals, and 3. leave it a cleaner place than when you went into it. I don’t care if you go naked or you jump rope on top; whatever you want to do it’s pretty open. Obviously Everest is always going to have an allure and it’s only going to grow because more people are going to want to do it. That’s not a bad thing. You get these CEO’s and super wealthy executives, who spend $150,000 for an expedition and a lot of that money hits the ground in Tibet and Nepal - people benefit from it. If you’re out to get a trophy why not climb a mountain that employs people. Certainly there’s an impact but it’s not like hunting a white rhino or a Siberian tiger when we can’t afford to take these animals’ genes out of the gene pool. There’s a lot of ego motivation to go conquer things – mountains can do that instead of hunting. Maybe we’re getting less people into hunting and killing animals to achieve what they want by taking them into the mountains.

In terms of the direction of the sport, climbers will continue to do more audacious climbs with less equipment and that’s the direction it’s been going for a long time. It’s up to the individual to say “this is how I’m going to do it and this is what it will be.” At the end of the climb, at the end of the day was that experience intrinsically rewarding for you? And then, whether you’re climbing 5.6 or 5.15 if you found that reward it doesn’t matter if it was a ground-breaking ascent or a repeat of Ski Tracks in Joshua Tree.

You mentioned people are doing more audacious things with less gear, more speed: how has the technology of climbing (telecommunications, training, gear, clothing) enhanced the challenge or has it maybe given a false bravura to climbers?

Equipment is always improving, but we’re humans and we want the best equipment whether it’s a little micro-recorder or automobiles or space ships or anything like that. It’s just human nature to want to improve their lot. Equipment is one of those things that falls into that category. We’re still basically climbing with the same stuff that Mallory had in ’24 except for the boots – now we have plastic that didn’t really come into industrial use until after the Second World War. It wasn’t until the 80s that it was applied to climbing. Nylon came in afterward which was also a real change. But with the layering concept, those guys did a really good job with a lot of thin layers of silk and wool and tightly woven cotton that was oiled so they were able to keep the cold at bay. Their footwear was absolutely archaic compared to what we have now. The oxygen canisters were far heavier, and it’s probably 50-60 more times efficient now if you divide how many liters of oxygen you have in a cylinder by the weight of that cylinder. We’re looking at advances that have been made in telecommunications and micro technology and it's just amazing. Are we going to say “I’m going to use my 8-track because it’s better for style than my iPod?” Probably not. People are going to find the best equipment and enjoy it and move on to other things. Good gear is what’s needed to make it to the top but it shouldn’t become a crutch. But if you have good gear you can try something harder.

What was it like when you finally realized you were looking at George Mallory?

It was a pretty humbling moment. Here’s someone I had a great amount of respect for going back many years. Seeing what they were doing and the degree of it using archaic equipment, I just had a great deal of respect for it. They were on the other side of the world, there was no satellite phone, no Internet, none of these things that we take for granted now or were even thought of at that time. They didn't even have topos; they knew where the map was, but all the route-finding was basically done by the seat of their pants. They were walking off the map; no one had ever really been there. They’d surveyed and knew the height which was taken from the Indian side in the 1850s but that was all.

Were you doing a sweep at the time or were you randomly looking?

We were all working different areas. I was in a lower area in more of a traversing type search, not in the actual search zone but sort of in a fold in the mountain.

Where do you think Irvine is?

Oh, he’s probably swept down off the mountain. He probably fell and then the natural forces carried him down the slope. I think that section of the mountain is going to be looked over quite a bit especially in upcoming years since our discovery in 1999.

Do you think there’s going to be any further search for him?

I think every year there are plans to keep looking around, in fact I know there are. They’re on other non-related expeditions, but people are wandering around. Eventually the mountain will be combed over and people will realize his body isn’t there anymore; it’s probably been swept down the glacier or into a crevasse somewhere.

Mountaineers and people who are high altitude folks relate different experiences. We know the physical ramifications are oxygen deprivation and all that. Do you have a great spiritual connection at altitude? What happens to you at altitude?

It’s like being on a bad champagne drunk. That’s all it is. Like drinking warm champagne on a hot, sunny day. And I don’t like champagne. If you can imagine, there’s a low level malaise, your brain’s just not working, you can’t add two and two, there’s no spiritual connection. You’re in the process of dying and it’s very damaging to your body. We really don’t know the full ramifications. When I summited Everest I always thought there would be this great moment and I would see this panorama and listen to Beethoven’s Ninth, I couldn’t get any closer to Heaven or anything like that. When I was there I thought, oh my God, this is just miserable. It’s completely nothing but suffering and you want to get down quick. Being up there and realizing how precious life is makes you even more appreciative when you come back. So the spirituality of being up high is what you then have here in this daily life. You’re not separated from it but you’re more grounded.

You suggested that there were bad omens on the 1924 Expedition and again in 1996 for the Rob Hall/Scott Fisher expeditions and the tragedy up there. Do you watch signs like that?

Well, not in the sense of “oh, four ravens flew over my path from the left shoulder, it’s bad luck.” It’s all about looking at your environment as objectively as possible. Any time we do that we’re then in the process of making decisions. Decision-making is our self-preservation. When you think 400 generations ago we were basically tribal, it’s really a different value than where we are right now. When you go out and you do these climbs, you kind of click back into a very animal type state. You have your rational decision-making process and your emotional decision-making process and know how to listen to each one and have a balance between the two of them. And I think the rational decision making is compromised because of the physical state you’re in but then the emotional state of “oh, I want to make it to the top, I’ve put in two years of effort, I’ve discussed it with my client, should we make it I want to be there with him,” so rather than being able to make a rational decision that may save your own life or change the outcome of the climb, you stick with this very emotional type decision-making.

Do you think that’s what happened with Mallory?

No, I think he was very rational. He knew what he could do and he didn’t get in over his head. He wanted to give it another go but he realized his limitations he had with Sandy Irvine and I think that really affected how it worked.

You focused a lot at the slide show on Alex, which is a great tribute to him. You did the Chang Tang trip with Gaylen Rowell and he’s gone, and you had a very close relationship with Mugs Stump. How has losing these three people so close to you changed your perception? Has it made you a safer climber?

Losing one friend who’s very close to you is a tragic thing. But in the larger scale of things with 6 billion plus people on the planet it’s the mortality of what happens every day and we just don’t see it in our society. Our elderly are put in the hospital and we go through great effort to prolonging their lives. Maybe that effort should be put into getting people to live healthier lives. So we don’t deal with death in the same way. If you’re a climber you realize death is very much a present and that, in many cases, is the reason why we’re drawn to climbing. There’s a very real risk factor. It makes you appreciate life more while you’re in the middle of it. But as Will (Gadd) said at his slide show, the ultimate success is being an old person.

What are the top five favorite things you’ve done?

The Chang Tang traverse was one of them. It was really nice. It was good to be over there and see those animals and study them. Skiing in the Middle Triple Peak with my partner. We skied it in and out. The approach was as much of a challenge as the climb was. Being in Pakistan, climbing with the Mongolians, interacting with them. Being here (in Ouray) this weekend is a good thing.

I haven’t finished reading the book on the Chang Tang (The Big Open), but what possessed three guys to take three rickshaws, load them with 250 pounds of gear, and go save some gazelles?

The trip was pretty much Rick (Ridgway’s) brainchild and he communicated with George Schaller different ways to study the chiru, the Tibetan antelope. There were three different herds, and Schaller had tried to get to the western herd which is the one that we observed in calving season. He tried to get there with vehicles, and it was too mountainous. He tried to get there with camels by caravan but there was no way to supply food for the camels: the process of bringing the fodder in for the animals was too great. I mean you could probably take a helicopter in there but that’d be cheating. Rick had been to the Chang Tang so he knew the geology of the area that lent itself to walking with a cart.

Is there serious effort now being made to protect the chiru?

Yes. The science and data that we provided was added to the studies by the wildlife biologists and was published in an International report. The Chinese have increased the area of the national preserve there to include the western calving ground. They’ve created a message that will promote the preserve but it hasn’t been sent yet. It’s difficult to understand the mysteries of the Chinese bureaucracy.

Is there poaching still going on?

Not as much as there was. I think the demand has been sharply driven down. That’s one of the good things about the book is that it took the demand away in the western civilization. In Persia and the Near East people might still be buying the shawls, but in Paris, Milan, places like that there’s no interest.

You’re going to Nepal in a few days for a month (for the school) then what’s your next project?

I come back, I’ll be home for about six weeks, and then I go back to Nepal to do another help-type trip. We’re working with a few US surgeons and some Nepali doctors to perform cataract surgery on some of the locals. It’s a pretty big problem over there – the people live in houses that don’t quite ventilate when they burn wood so the smoke is bad. A lot of it’s due to the exposure, too - high altitude, low latitude. It then becomes burdensome to the families because they have still able-bodied elderly people that can (normally) get around on their own but with impaired vision they can’t so they require a lot of extended care. That’s a lot of energy and resources that could go to educating a child. It kind of all pieces together when you think that one little thing might not have any bearing, but it does affect the bigger picture.

Any more peaks?

Oh, yeah, always!